Chapter 51
Good Monday Morning to this week 51 of 2022
I read through an very interesting discussion in a public group by R. Mayson discussing the some of works of N.T. Wright.
He started the discussion with the following sentence:
I always thought that as a Christian I would go to heaven when I die. But apparently, that is not the case.
Following some highlights of of the discussion! I love the conversation, especially as it ends with a beautiful conclusion leading us to the happenings of Christmas.
Heaven is a big deal, but it’s not the end of the world.
“Go to heaven” in the Middle Ages blocked disciples from seeing the presence of the Kingdom in their living. That inadequate understanding has carried over to many today.
However, properly understood it is as good a metaphor as any.
“Wright doesn’t say that we don’t go to heaven when we die; he just says that that’s not the end of the story. “Today you shall be with me in Paradise” applies to every repentant sinner at the time of death. The marriage supper of the Lamb leads on to the new heavens and the new earth.
Apparently several early ‘Church fathers’ did not consider as ‘Christians’ those who expected to be wished off yonder rather than be citizens of the coming Kingdom of God on Earth.
Heaven is coming to you.
We are going to “be with Christ.” Sounds like heaven to me!
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord is descriptive of paradise, as Jesus said to the dying thief: “today you will be with me in paradise.”At the resurrection you’ll be rejoined to your “body” and enter the Kingdom which is also when God will remake the heavens and the earth.
So, we’re going “up” to eventually come back “down.” check out the etymology and greek of paradise. Jesus is talking about the Garden.
Let’s remember that we are dealing with the vagaries of language. Just look in a dictionary for the huge number of meanings of “go”. It turns out you can go somewhere without moving. Is there any real difference between going to heaven and heaven coming to me when the universe has no way of determining which is the case, just like there’s no up and down in space. These phrases are reflecting our human thinking about direction
Heaven is the kingdom, including “new” creation. It is deified participation in the immutably dynamic eternity that is the Triune life.
Jesus did prepare a place in Heaven for his followers. Rev. 21 speaks about a new Heaven & Earth. We were made for the Earth ( new earth new resurrected bodies).
Correct. We look forward to resurrection from death not going to heaven.
Heaven is a space not a place. NTW
Well I’m still going… or it’s coming here. Either way is fine by me…
No mate, but very few things truly are… in any case, I reckon He’ll find me.
I think it’s more a question of how you define “heaven”. A spiritual place where we go when we die to be with loved ones. Spiritual bodies that are recognised we will not have ‘spiritual bodies,’ but physical resurrected bodies that are glorified. Christ is our example and forerunner in this – and He had a physical body as well, the same body He lived and breathed in is the same body that was resurrected.
Why is it important to you that heaven be “spiritual”? I go to prepare a place for you in my father’s house that’s a reference to Marriage Supper of the Lamb festival also known as Sukkot/Festival of Shelters/Feast of Tabernacles (it has many ways you can refer to it) but is the last Feast in the yearly Jewish feast cycle, mentioned in Leviticus 23 and celebrates God coming to dwell amongst his people and commemorates when the Israelites dwelled in the wilderness (on their way to the promised land).
It’s also the only feast that has an 8th Day regulation; with fresh starts, second chances, new beginnings, new creation.
So much meaning involved and SO much better than the simple REST stop on the way that heaven probably is for those of us that “fall asleep” before the full and final “Day of the Lord”. In the meanwhile, we get to be the advance guard; the little pockets of heaven or “walking tabernacles” when we accept the invitation to participate in the great rehearsal that is still happening here and now.
Welcome to the dangerous heaven/earth intersection; there’s still work to be done (but now from a place of rest, rather than striving) and how great is that!
Phew. A lot to comprehend. I know God loves me and when I die I will live
So where does it say your not going
Heaven is a space not a place.
Thank God, it will be much better than “heaven”! New Heaven / New Earth…
It’s about being with Christ. Whether it is called heaven or not, it doesn’t matter.
It is a place for those who are in Christ and are awaiting the fullness of new creation to come to pass. We will be in God’s presence that’s what is important 
What is that immediate state, a bit of a merry dance when asked,
but it’s great, because, he is absolutely totally happy to humbly say there are things we do not and cannot know.
Sure you will. Wherever God is will be heaven.
Life after LIFE, life after death
Heaven is a space not a place.
Richard, that is a big question – what is heaven, where is heaven, who goes there etc. Keep learning, keep praying, and stay close to Jesus and you will learn more and more about your eternal destination and life as you go. The journey is important.
‘Everyone is alive to God’ Jesus said, when arguing for resurrection because of who God is and what God does.
Death is what we see, in time; Life is who God sees in eternity.
When there is love between people, there is kingdom of God in them. If there is no love, even heaven is like hell.
Heaven is a space not a place.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Paul writes if our faith is for this life only we are to be pitied above all men.
Once in heaven there is not more history. What exactly Wright is talking about? We need context
There is life after life after death…NTW
Heaven comes to you…
Yes, through the magnificent gift of the Holy Spirit.The book of Hebrews and other epistles support this understanding.There’s plenty of room for all you believe and approach in confidence.
The Bible is very clear WHO we are with after we die; not so much WHERE we are.
It’s in keeping with John’s rather mystical and symbolic style.
He, and his Father come to us in Spirit and establish us in heavenly places as Paul concurs.
Heaven is a space not a place.
Heaven comes to you!
The deep message of Christmas
blessed Christmas to you all!
Philemon